Entry Seven: The Duke Law Grad (or, one of the best dates Ive ever had) (3217 hits)
(Me that night in September standing in front of one of the toilet rooms at Liv )
One awesome Friday night back in September I was out at Club Liv in DC celebrating with my homegirl to ring in her birthday. The night began at Stadium for happy hour and free drinks, then moved to the other club once we got tired of gawking at the strippers contorting their bodies in crazy ways and sliding down greasy poles. (SIDE NOTE: I did not know that Stadium was a strip club. My eyes nearly popped out of my head when I walked in and the first thing I saw was a girl on a pole with her cookie jar open staring me right in my face. These heaux don't wear drawers??? I thought that was illegal. Oh, that's Va., not DC I guess)
But I digress.
The night was pretty awesome. I danced with a guy wearing glasses who kept telling me how hot I was, and eventually invited me into one of the unis*x bathrooms so he could get a good look at me in the light. At first I was reluctant to go, because I didnt want people to see me go into one of the bathooms with a dude. But since there was no one in the area (the way Liv is set up is there is a rest area with sinks just outside the bathrooms at the back of the club. There's no divider wall or anything, simply three doors that lead to tiny rooms containing a single toilet.) I said, "what the heck," and took his hand as he led me to the rest area in the back of the club. In fact, I thought his idea to get a good look at me was hilarious, because I was hoping by some chance I could get to see him in some bright light outside of the dim club atmosphere too. Anyway, once we got into the bathroom, Glasses gave me a once over and said, "Yeah, definitely a cutie." The stall was super tiny, so I had my back pressed against one wall and his was against the other. I gave him an appraisal as well, concluding that he was indeed s*xy enough to hand out my digits. We exchanged numbers then and there. He didnt try so much as a hug and I appreciated that, so I hugged him.
After our once overs, he opened the door, and wouldn't you know it, there was a line of patrons waiting to get a turn in the bathroom!! I was slightly embarrassed, because I could tell by the looks on their faces that they thought some hanky panky swirling had just gone down, but I shook it off, saying to myself, "Whatever! They don't know me."
We went back out on the dance floor and busted it up for a while, until Glasses said he had to roll. We said our goodbyes, and I found a seat to rest my aching dogs for a while. I just people watched mostly and cheered my girlfriend on as she celebrated the night away. As I was chilling out, sipping my drink, which was HORRIBLE by the way, the birthday girl walked over to me with two guys by her side. She introduced him and he introduced his friend. The friend was super cute. He had a small gap between his two front teeth which I thought made him s*xy. He was honey-colored and had short curly hair. Kind of reminded me of an Ethiopian. He told me he was 28, and a lawyer who worked downtown. I said, "Man please! (in my best Martin voice) You ain't no lawyer." He insisted he was and said that he had graduated from Duke Law School. I said, "Oh, okay so you fancy, huh? But you have my attention." He chuckled and asked me to dance. I danced with him, and noted that he wasn't the best dancer. But, he was cute and gainfully employed so I was biting.
During our dance we conversed here and there, and I thought he was really cool. Well spoken and well mannered. We all had a good time. When the lights came up, the four of us walked outside and exchanged numbers. Before my girlfriend and I began to walk to her car, Duke Law grabbed my hand, and said, "Hey, my friend will walk your girl to her car. I will walk you to yours if that's okay." I told him that I hadnt driven and that I rode with her, but that I was staying in a hotel on I Street because I didnt want to drive all the way back to Virginia all sloshed. He said he wanted to spend just a few more moments with me and would take me back to my hotel. I thought it was a good idea and walked back to my girl to check with her. We huddled up and she told me that she didnt mind the other guy walking her to her car, and told me to be careful but have fun. I giggled that I would be careful, before walking back to where Duke Law was waiting. Then he and I began walking toward his car. After a minute or so, Duke Law asked me if I wanted to do something crazy. I said, "Why not?" And he asks me if I want to go to his job. I said, "What? It's like three in the morning." He said, "So, I have an access card. Besides, I want to show you that Im really a lawyer." I said, "Alright, where is it?" He told me the address and suggested driving there. My gut told me he was good to go, so I said, "Alright, crazy man. Let's go."
We walked to his car, which was an older Ford Taurus station wagon. I jokingly asked him how many children he had, and he said he didnt have any and that his mom had given him the car a few years back and he didnt see the need to buy a new one. I told him that it was cool that he didnt care what people thought about him, and Im sure he saved a ton of money by not having to pay a note. As he drove he told me that he was actually his friend's ride home and that he told him that he was only walking me to my car and would be right back. I said, "What?! That's mean. How's he gonna get home?" Duke Law told me that his old lady would pick him up, and not to worry about it. I said, "Awww man. My friend likes him, and he already has a girl." He told me that it was actually his ex, but she would do anything for him. I thought that was messed up and I told him that. He shrugged and said, "I know, but that's his business, and I stay out of it." We made a little more small talk, and in less than ten minutes, we were in front of the law offices where he worked. He swiped his badge and the revolving door unlocked. We took an elevator up a few floors and when the doors opened, I stood in awe. These were some dope offices! It was super modern with lots of glass and open space. I could hardly believe that so much space was behind what looked like such a small area jam-packed with office buildings that rose high into the D.C. sky. I looked around like my head was on a swivel.
The offices were done in cool colors of blues and yellows with taupe colored walls and carpets. We climbed some stairs and started down a long narrow hallway full of closed doors. He stopped at each one and as I read the name plates on the wall, he told me fun facts about each person. When we reached one of the last ones, I noticed his last name was French, and I said as much to him. He said, I'm Creole. I made a joke about Beyonce being Creole,which he didnt get and then told him I thought he was Ethiopian, which he said he heard a lot since moving to D.C. from L.A.
We walked into his office. It was sparsely furnished, but very neat. I immediately shed my shoes. Those Kirkwoods might look great, but they were killing my poor piggies. I told Duke Law that my feet hurt and I asked him for a foot massage. He pulled the chair that was in front of his desk around so that it was beside the chair behind it, and motioned for me to sit. I sat across from him and raised my legs to put my feet in his lap. He took off my shoes and was about to start rubbing my left foot before I stopped him because I had second thoughts. I told him to wait a minute while I snatched up one of my shoes to smell it. I know I didnt have stinky feet, but there's something about taking my shoes off in front of a stranger for the first time that always makes me want to double check. Once I gave him the all clear, he laughed and proceeded to massage my feet.
HEAVEN
As he rubbed we talked. He told me about his childhood and how he never made a lot of friends because his family moved around a lot. He said his uncle and aunt were like real life Huxtables in reverse roles and that was why he wanted to become a lawyer. (To be like his uncle) He said that he had always been insecure, despite what many people told him about his good looks. (And yes, he is really good looking.) The insecurities stemmed from not making solid friends in his youth, and then as an adult, they were compounded when sadly, he did not pass the bar exam the first time around and add to that losing his first love around the same time. He said he hadnt been physically intimate with anyone since his last girlfriend and that was about a year ago. He said he was sort of seeing someone and they were still in the "get to know you" phase, but he was nervous about going "there" since it had been so long. I said, "If she isn't pressuring you for s*x, then don't sweat it. It'll happen naturally." I told him that everyone has insecurities, but it seems that he accomplished a lot in life and not to worry. He thought that being a new lawyer at 28 put him behind the power curve, and he wasnt happy where he was at the moment. I told him that things would fall into place and that he should learn to live in the moment.
We talked more about fashion (my idea) and then we got on the topic of music. He said he wanted to play one of his favorite songs if I didnt mind. I told him that it was his office and he was free to play whatever song he wanted. He ended up going on YouTube to play Renee', by the Lost Boyz. I shouted, "That's my song! Wow. Its so cool that you like this. I wouldnt take you for a Lost Boyz fan. You seem so straight-laced." He chuckled and said, "I'm from L.A." I said, "And?" And we both just laughed.
After our musical session, where we both rapped the lyrics along with the Boyz, he said he wanted to take me to the senior partner's office to show me the difference in views from their office windows. When we got up to leave, he stopped me at his office door and asked for a kiss. I didn't answer with words. Instead I leaned in and stood on my tiptoes. He got my hint and leaned down to kiss me. It was sweet, but a teeny bit awkward because he kind of misjudged my distance, I guess, and leaned in too fast causing our teeth to bump at first. Im glad my lip didnt get caught in that crossfire. That would have hurt. But after that, it was okay. We didnt swap spit or anything. No tongues. Just a couple sweet kisses. Then he began to walk down the hallway, and I followed, shoes dangling from my pointer and middle fingers.
When we got all the way to the opposite end of the hallway, we entered a large corner office. He turned on the light. The office was not very tidy. There were books and papers everywhere. We went over to the window and I had to admit that I was impressed by the view. He said, "See this? This is what a partner gets." I told him that one day he would have a view like this of his own. We walked over to a bookcase and I began to pick up the paperweights and other items on the top of the shelf, being mindful to replace them exactly the way I had found them.
Duke Law told me about the deals the lawyers brokered and how much money they got for their clients which were mostly corporations and oil companies. I was quiet and just let him talk. I liked how he talked. (Always have loved a Cali accent)
On our way outside, Duke Law said, "I'm hungry. Please tell me you're hungry too. I'm not ready for this night to end." I was happy. I said, "I am hungry. Where do you want to go?" He took me to The Diner in Adams Morgan since it was like the only spot open at 4am. We had grits, eggs and turkey bacon with toast and jam. He was the consummate gentleman and I really did enjoy the time spent with him.
Once breakfast was over he drove me back to my hotel. During the ride, I told him that I found him very attractive, but I noticed that his eyes were sad. I said, "You have sad eyes. Why?" He said, "You noticed that. Hmmmm I don't know. I guess Im not exactly happy." I didn't press it. We were silent the rest of the way.
When we reached Club Quarters (my hotel), he opened my car door, which he had done all night. He held out his hand for me to grasp as I got out of the car. We kind of just stood there for a minute or two not knowing what to say. I don't know why, but I just knew I wouldn't see him again, and it had nothing to do with the girl in his life. There was more there. Something heavy that was weighing on him. I decided I'd chalk it up to a great night and enjoy it for what it was. I shared some of my thoughts and he was quiet. He said, "You're a really good catch." I said, "You don't have to call."
He walked me to the door and smiled. Then he walked to his car. Before getting in, he said, "I'll call." He never did.
I have mixed feelings about this. I really liked his company, but he had some internal issues that he was dealing with and I knew he wasn't ready for a new woman in his life. I just felt it. It's okay too. Sometimes people just need to share space before they crawl back into their solitude, and I was fine with that. I had a really good time that night. Just living in the moment and going where the vibe took me.
He did too. Which is something he said he rarely does. I wish him the best.
...I danced with him, and noted that he wasn't the best dancer. But, he was cute and gainfully employed so I was biting. ...
"If you wanna be with me, you have to have a J.O.B. Ain't no romance without finance"... I'm not sure if you remember that song by Gwen Gutherie. It was the Black woman's anthem at one time in addition to "I Will Survive" by Gloria Gainer ((Lol)). Although I was only a prepubescent teen at the time, I still loved that song because I was growing tired of seeing my aunts dating men who weren't gainfully employed.
Anyway it sounds like you had a really nice time and I'm happy all ended well with you getting back to your hotel safely. As for Glasses (Ha), its best that he didn't call you ( in my opinion) because whatever issues he was dealing with... I don't think there was a dire need for you to walse into someone elses' problems becasue I'm sure you can do bad all by yourself, eh. I also like "No More Drama" by Mary J.
...so viva la vida!!!
Monday, December 19th 2011 at 10:04AM
Jen Fad
I do remember those songs! Ha ha
Glasses did call and we chatted, but nothing came of it. Duke Law didnt call though. I was a little disappointed even though I knew he wouldnt.
Monday, December 19th 2011 at 1:58PM
Shaahn Williams
oops I got Glasses confused with Duke Law. ... he was the one I was actually referring to.
Ha ha! I know.
Monday, December 19th 2011 at 2:32PM
Shaahn Williams
Duke Law probably should think about giving up that station wagon--- ya think! ((Lol)) That's probably one of the reasons his old girl dumped him. Who knows he probably still lives with his parents like alot of people due to the tough economic times so he could upgrade that wagon for at least a Toyota Corolla or something!!
@Shaahn, I'm curious, why do you think he did all of that just to not call you any more?
Tuesday, December 20th 2011 at 10:00PM
Tashana Sims Hudspeth
Jen,
From what he told me, he lived alone. His mom still lives in Cali. He makes a good living. I think he's just frugal.
@Tashana,
Im not sure. I think he just needed to get out, and it was an in the moment type thing, but he wasnt ready to climb out of his funk just yet. I also think that he felt like he wasnt where he wanted to be in his career and didnt have what he felt he should have to offer me. Cuz Im a director at my job, and he was saying that was where he should be. You know?
Tuesday, December 20th 2011 at 10:04PM
Shaahn Williams
PS Tashana,
he never called me at all.
Tuesday, December 20th 2011 at 10:06PM
Shaahn Williams
Shaahn, I really hate to break this to you, but this man was either one of two things; married or living with someone.
You may disagree, but let me tell you, your story - I could have sworn you were talking about me - lol. I can't tell you how many times - way back when - when I projected these romantic images on men that I barely knew. No, I'm sorry, didn't know at all.
And then when they didn't call I always had an excuse for them. But really, men aren't this darn complicated. If this man liked you and wanted to be with you, nothing could have stopped him from calling you, picking you up the next day, whatever - he would have gotten in touch with you.
Because he knew he wasn't going to get any, even after all his show-boating, which was really a borderline desperate move to try and romanticize you into giving up your cookies, he gave up and left you with all these suppositions and presupposes - lol.
You made a lot of excuses for a man you didn't know anything about, and it seems you failed to recognize the obvious.
I can't tell you how many times the women placed in my path, along my journey used to tell me this very thing, and because I was so brilliant and together, I knew they were wrong; because I was going to prove them wrong. I never did.
It wasn't until I met a man that dispelled all my beliefs about what love was that I realized everything that I thought I knew about men, was a lie; or rather was something made up in my mind because I didn't have the answers.
Have you asked yourself this, what would this man's career or lack thereof, have anything to do with him calling you again? Did you think that he fell in love with you on that first night after rubbing your pinky toe and gallivanting you around his bosses office (which could roughly be invasion of privacy - seeing as how it's a law firm and all - but I digress)?
I noticed you made it a point to point out that this 'really did happen', and even after seeing that, my eyebrows are raised - lol. No offense, I believe you; but I have a difficult time believing that anyone is this undiscerning, but I could be wrong.
Call me disillusioned but there was somethung about that night that I guess can't be conveyed in words. I didn't project anything onto him romantic or otherwise. I don't think someone out to have a one night stand would tell me all his secrets, especially about his performance anxiety. And don't forget that when we got to my hotel, he didn't try to ask to come up, or anything. I can't speak for his living situation, cuz ur right, I don't know him, but there was no evidence of an s/o in his office or car.
I think we met, had a nice night, and that was it. And yes, he wasn't tryna pursue further, but I'm not gonna say it was cuz he had a woman. Maybe I just wasn't his type.
I've met guys on the street before, hung out for lunch or dinner, wihout even exchanging contact info. Its just like that sometimes.
I can appreciate where you're coming from, and where you heart is. However, he played a sympathy card, and he knew you were the type of woman that would play right along with him.
I think it's safe to say that, as women, we typically have a good idea of who we'd sleep with sometimes within minutes and for some women, upon first glance of meeting a man. Don't you think that your actions (getting into a stranger's car, going to his office, allowing him to rub your feet while you talk about fashion and world peace...) allowed him to graft you as well?
And as for not projecting any romance on him, maybe I interpreted your prose wrong, but your night with Mr. Duke was something right out of a Harlequin. I was waiting for the white horse to come galloping in to swoop the two of you away - lol...Again, no offense, these are simply external, unbiased observations, that I wish someone would have hipped me to way back when.
Ask yourself Shaahn, why would a man that you don't know take you to his job, tell you all his hopes, dreams and inadequacies, just to realize that you aren't the woman for him so there's no need to call anymore? Men just are not that complicated. He revealed some rather intimate details about his romantic life with a woman he knew nothing about, for what? To save money on an actual therapist? Come on now...
But hey, maybe I'm jaded - lol. I have no problem admitting when I'm wrong. Heck, I hope I am. However, I doubt it. I actually let my boyfriend read this because I wanted a male perspective, and he said the same thing - you gave to much of you to fast (his words). Even though you didn't sleep with him, those sundries of words pack a powerful punch to a man only looking for the bizzness...
Again, I could be totally wrong, and who knows maybe he'll pop back into your life at a time when you least expect it, and that will be the memory you both share that could possibly change your life. I'm a die hard romantic myself, so, I get it ;-).
@ Tashana Where are you livin'? I read Sha'ahn's story and I thought it was just a recount of a very pleasant and memorable experience that she had and wanted to share. Contrary to what you obviously believe, not all men have an ulterior motive that is ultimately focused on a s*xual encounter. It seems to me, that because so many women seem to want to place "dog genes' in the DNA of every man, that there are some men who purposely and quite deliberately do all they can to demonstrate that they are interested in more than just s*x. I have life-long male friends that are nothing more than friends. We go out to dinner, to the movies, dancing, etc, just because we feel comfortable enough around each other and don't have the "s*x" thing hanging over our heads. We're just friends. Moreover, what does it say about women, when they perceive themselves as only an object on s*xual conquest for men? Really? Is that all you think you have to offer or the only reason for a man to show interest in you?
Wednesday, December 21st 2011 at 4:15PM
ulisheba mitchell
@ulisheba, I sincerely appreciate your candor, however, I'm not sure you're seeing my point. I didn't say anything about men only wanting s*x, or that I think that we, as women, are just s*xual objects. I made an observation, and frankly the observation is what it is.
From the tone of your note, you seem to think that my observation was meant to squash this poor woman's personal experience and turn it into something tawdry and torrid. No, that again is not the case.
I am simply stating the obvious; why would a perfect stranger take a woman he's never met, to his job, show her around, squander in his bosses' office (which again can have some dire consequences - seeing as how it's a law firm), without some ulterior motive (s*xual or no)? Really? I ask you, where are you livin? lol...
Granted, if this man was someone she knew, and/or even just met and had drinks with, kicked it, and he called her again to at least tell her about the nice time he had - I can see that. I can romanticize right along with you guys, but that's not what happened according to Shaahn. He didn't call. Really? And you don't believe this man didn't have something else up his sleeve - whatever that something else may have been. Kudos to you, but I beg to differ and I would absolutely love to be proven wrong. I welcome it even.
Who knows maybe he got sped away by the upcoming Apocalypse a little early. Or heck, maybe the inevitable happened and he just really couldn't call - whatever. Again, I made an observation based on my experiences and the comments and observations of my own male friends - so see you are not the only one with insight here.
And not that this is anyone's business, but since we're talking about it, it seems quite apropos - I am very secure in who I am s*xually, and I understand that because that is the only way that we make it into this realm of the hemisphere, it only stands to reason that it is a very functional part of our every day lives.
Now, because you seem to be taking things way to literally, let me say this. The older we get, some of us, the less important s*x becomes as a basic staple in our everyday activities. However, Viagra, Levitra, and all those other 'get'um up' drugs don't exist for no reason.
And let me say this, where are you getting this 'dog' mess from. Please revisit my post, I never said that because a man's first nature is physical, that he is automatically anatomically transformed into a different species. Again, s*x is natural, and I challenge anyone to object to that little fact. Again, I love to be proven wrong :-).
Men are cut from a different cloth. Their nature's are riddled in what they can see, and for women, ours is perpetuated by what we feel. Obviously it's not that matter of fact, because you're always going to have examples to the contrary, but hopefully my point makes more sense; whether you agree or disagree is irrelevant as long as you absorb my comments in the manner in which they are being delivered; as observations - not facts.
@ Tashana Okay ,you went all over the place with your reply, so let me start here. Apparently, it is not as obvious as you say, since not everyone agrees with your point of view. You stated yourself that you viewed Sha'ahn's recount of her experience through your own life experiences...and that is my point! Everyone's experiences are different. I have been blessed that the majority of my experiences with men have been positive and for those that were not, I built a bridge and got over it. Life is too short to dwell on things that produce no benefit. Everybody meets a stranger for the first time. Everybody goes out on a first date the first time. Even if you get to know a person on the phone or through email or whatever, you still have to have a first encounter with that person for the first time and on that first time, you are out with a virtual stranger. Whether it is in a car, at a club, at the job, the risk is the same. Even people who have dated for months or years have found that the person they thought they knew is a stranger. Please excuse me for misunderstanding your take on the intention of Duke. Surely, as you suggest, his intent to get the cookies, was purely functional as it relates to this hemisphere. As you say, men are cut from a different cloth. However, they are not some homogeneous. The point is that there are men who are gentlemen, indeed. If we find that we are attracting men that are focused on self-gratification and self-indulgence, and do not have our interest at heart, maybe we should consider the common denominator in each of these encounters - ourselves. Truly, we teach people how to treat us. I imagine that the comment about getting older and reduced s*xual desire is in reference to my age. I have been blessed to live 55 long, healthy and happy years! There is nothing wrong with my s*xual drive, dear, not at all. Should you live long enough, hopefully, you will come to understand this on a personal level. In this regard, you really should speak what you know, not what you think. Oh, but wait, you haven't gotten there yet, right? Halla, when you get there! Be blessed, young princess!
Wednesday, December 21st 2011 at 6:32PM
ulisheba mitchell
At Tashana: You said, "I am simply stating the obvious; why would a perfect stranger take a woman he's never met, to his job, show her around, squander in his bosses' office..."
Why ask why? But if you must question his motives, why do you make them negative? Because he didnt call even though I thought we clicked? That was my perception. And what if something happened to him? Case in point: I had an internet homegirl. We had planned to meet in person one day soon. For some reason, she stopped emailing me. I was sending email after email, and getting no response. Then one day I happened to check her Facebook page, and to my dismay, saw a bunch of R.I.P. statuses on her page. She had DIED. Now Im not saying that Duke Law is dead, but what I am saying is, Im not going to ruin the night by trying to color him as a liar and cheat, only out for one thing.
I must ask you a question: Why couldnt the night just have been a good night, and that was it? That was the end. Why do you think he had to call? And because he didnt, he must have had someone?
I wanted a male opinion too, so I asked my ex. He had already read the blog and so I asked him what he thought Duke's intentions were. He said, that he thinks he met a beautiful lady, and didnt want the night to end, so he invited me to his office (to boost his ego and impress me) and then to breakfast. He said Duke had many opportunities to try to get me to bed, but didnt, so he thinks it was what it was. A night out. He said he thinks something may be up because he didnt call, but he wouldnt assume he had a lady because he already told me about the woman he was seeing, so... My friend also told me that not all men are trying to get a woman in bed. Sometimes they just want female company. Thats it. And sometimes people meet, have a good time, and never see each other again. Its life. I didnt lose anything and neither did he.
Im just tryna figure out why you think the man had ulterior motives. I happen to be great company, lol. I think he enjoyed having an ear and a pretty lady in his company.
Oh, and how did your friend conclude that I gave up too much too soon? Because I listened to Duke talk? Because I didnt judge him, and because I was spontaneous and went with the flow? Taking a ride and going to an office, and then the diner doesnt seem like giving of myself. I think that I am adventurous and spontaneous, but I go with my gut, and my gut told me that I wouldnt end up on the 11 o' clock news. And I didnt. Im a very adventurous person. I go to different countries alone, and go out with guys I meet over there sometimes. I just like to have fun. And I have so much history and good times to share with others. I dont regret my actions at all - that night, nor any other.
My experience with men has been mostly positive, so I guess Im not cynical, or suspicious of men and their intentions. And even if you are right, I had fun! He didnt act inappropriately toward me, nor did he disrespect me at any point that night. And I didnt sleep with him nor do I regret asking for a foot rub. Shoot, my feet hurt! LOL
The way I carry myself draws a certain type of man to me. And I get what I expect. (So do you.) I know Im good enough to be conversed with and wined and dined without expectation of s*x at the end. And even if they do expect it, they won't approach it unless I put the vibe out there. LOL
Whhoooo I have so many stories about men and things they have done (not expecting anything in return), that you probably could never understand or believe. LOL
Bottom line for me though is that just because I wanted him to call, and he didnt doesnt mean he was up to no good.
@ulisheba, okay, unfortunately you are still missing my point., and that may be my fault - the writer in me can go off on tangents at times so If I'm not being clear, my apologies.
However, I stated simply that these are 'my' observations. Point blank. And, I'm not quite sure where you got that I said anything about your s*x drive - because I don't know anything about your s*x drive so I very well can't make any comments.
Uyou misunderstand me when I suggest that maybe his motives were not all together pure. That doesn't mean he can't be a gentleman. These two acts are mutually exclusive. So, I'm not sure where you're coming up with this.
I have no problem with people disagreeing with me - please believe that. That is the beauty of being an individual (first of all), and even more so, it's what makes me unique. I don't need people to agree with me. My only desire is that people seek understanding - not just agreement. We are too diverse in our thoughts to always agree, so just because the two people who are responding to this post don't agree with what I have to say, doesn't make my points any less valid.
Frankly, this is a moot conversation because we're all women, and we are once again making assumptions about men without the benefit of their knowledge and their experiences - which is like having a barbeque with no meat - what's the point - lol..
Shaahn thinks I am jumping to the negative. Well, I'm sorry, I've been around long enough to realize that some things, that are that far off course, should not be idealized as romantic fantasies (but to each his own). It's as if you're suggesting that it's okay for young women to get in the cars of strange men and gallivant off to some unknown place, all for the sake of romance, or pleasant experiences, or whatever you'd like to call it.
I do not judge. I've been here. No, I'm not 55, but I' am not 2 either, so I think in my 40 years of living, I've learned some things; and I obviously have much more to learn. And if you and I compared life experiences, I can go out on a limb and assert that what I've been through in my 40 years of life, is more than what most 60 year old women have ever gone through. I'm just saying.
I'm not really understanding the offense that's being taken. Again, and please hear me, these are my observations. My opinions, my empirical generalizations. Not facts - lol. I can't express that enough.
And Shaahn, excuse me if I choose not to relish in those fantasies at this point in my life. However, I've been there, I share your feelings, and oddly enough sometimes those memories kept me, and they were beautiful in their own right.
It's exciting to hear that you experienced something you thought was beautiful and pure. There is something to be learned from that. But again, these are just my observations. We are on a blog site right? So what, am I supposed to just fall in love with every story that's told and relinquish my own objective opinion for the sake of being in agreement? What's the point in that?
When people disagree and communicate constructively, learning happens. So, I stand by my 'observation', and ulisheba we will just have to graciously agree to disagree. dot.dot.dot.
@Shaahn, you said: My experience with men has been mostly positive, so I guess Im not cynical, or suspicious of men and their intentions. And even if you are right, I had fun!
And this is WONDERFUL. And you seem like a great person to be around. Even through your writing, I can hear your voice. I see your enthusiasm for life. I respond to your zest for adventure - I get it. So, I'm not quite sure that there is anything you could share with me, about men, that would surprise me. I've got stories and experiences, as well - AND WE ALL DO.
I wont beat this dead horse anymore because at the end of the day, we each have our positions. I can see all sides, and make cases for every point of view, and it's unfortunate that others are reluctant to do so. I guess that's the educator in me.
I think I shared this with you on another post - I like debates. I thrive on them. I love deep conversations because they get people talking and communicating and opening up on otherwise taboo topics.
I don't need to agree with you. I don't need to feel what you feel. I don't need to accompany you down that road of adventure and pleasure. I made a comment, some feedback, an observation, that's it. Why can't you just accept it for what it is, instead of turning me into some type of misandrist. I happen to love men, and I can appreciate everything about them - good, bad, ugly, and indifferent, because I have an open mind.
Also, you said: Im just tryna figure out why you think the man had ulterior motives. I happen to be great company, lol. I think he enjoyed having an ear and a pretty lady in his company.
Why do I think he had ulterior motives - now that I think about it - don't we all? We all have an agenda, whatever it may be. All I'm 'observing' is that this is unusual behavior for a man that just wanted to spend an evening with a beautiful lady, only to never call her again.
Is it possible? YES. It's possible. I just don't agree. Plain and simple. Call me jaded, disillusioned, whatever, but it's my opinion.
And to both you and ulisheba's comments about the majority of your experiences with men being positive, doesn't it stand to reason that if most of your experiences have been positive (and I think that word really requires some definition - but that's another post for another time), that you really wouldn't be equipped to see the negative, because you've never experienced it at any gut wrenching levels?
It's akin to someone trying to describe to you the taste of chocolate when they've never tasted it themselves. Is that feasible?
Okay, so I said I'm not beating this horse, but with this last post, I've whipped him a bit - lol...Again, we can agree to just disagree on this - it doesn't bother me at all. As an educator, my role is to come at topics from all sides. I put my critical thinking skills to work at all times - lol.
Lastly (and I promise - no more), my initial comments were sparked by the fact that you made excuses for his not calling, and that really is where I draw the line in the sand. I gave up making excuses for the actions of men, long ago, because I realize that if a man wants something, NOTHING, not even Rapture - lol - will stop him from getting it. NOTHING!
The following definitions are from the New Oxford American Dictionary:
fantasy - the faculty or activity of imagining things; an idea with no basis in reality judgement - to make a decision based on opinion or conclusions bias - prejudice in favor of or against one thing, person, or group compared with another, usually in a way considered to be unfair opinion - a view or judgment formed about something, not necessarily based on fact or knowledge
The following are exerpts that I copied and pasted from your post:
Shaahn, I really hate to break this to you, but this man was either one of two things; married or living with someone. - judgement
Because he knew he wasn't going to get any, even after all his show-boating, which was really a borderline desperate move to try and romanticize you into giving up your cookies, he gave up and left you with all these suppositions and presupposes - lol. - judgement (and you thought it was funny)
You made a lot of excuses for a man you didn't know anything about, and it seems you failed to recognize the obvious. - judgement
but I have a difficult time believing that anyone is this undiscerning, but I could be wrong. - judgement he played a sympathy card, and he knew you were the type of woman that would play right along with him. -judgement
but your night with Mr. Duke was something right out of a Harlequin. -judgement (you were not there, so you don't know) Since your were not there and do not possess the ability to read Duke's mind or even observe the exchange between him and Sha'ahn, there was no true observation. Therefore all the statements about Duke either being married or living with someone, only wanting Sha'ahn's cookies, etc, were judgements of Duke's character and Sha'ahn's ability to make her own choices.
these are simply external, unbiased observations, that I wish someone would have hipped me to way back when. Again, I made an observation based on my experiences and the comments and observations of my own male friends - so see you are not the only one with insight here. - biased, based on your own life experiences and that of your male friends
Well, I'm sorry, I've been around long enough to realize that some things, that are that far off course, should not be idealized as romantic fantasies - Sha'ahn stated that this actually happened. You may or may not believe it - your choice. However, you are the one that projected romantic fantasy into the conversation. This was a real event, therefore it does not fit the definition of a fantasy.
It's as if you're suggesting that it's okay for young women to get in the cars of strange men and gallivant off to some unknown place, all for the sake of romance, or pleasant experiences, or whatever you'd like to call it. - judgement, whether you agree with the behavior or not. You have no idea if the was "all for the sake of" anything! It's Sha'ahn's choice! She considered herself a good enough judge of character to feel comfortable making it! Turns out, she was right! Now your can "what if" it 24/7. The fact is, it is what it is and will never be anything else, because this particular event is already in the past.
I believe that you have lived a lot of life in 40 years. It is apparent in your writing (my judgement). And it could be that you filter life through those experiences, which cause you believe as you do. I think all people's life experience impact their life to some degree. What kind of impact we allow to continue is a choice. However, you will never live 60 years of experience, despite your experiences, until you have lived 60 years. Your experiences may have been many in your 40 years (and you seem to suggest, not so good), but you have 20 more to go, to reach 60. You also have it in your power to consider a change in your perspective that might lend to the next 20 years being your best...until you get to the next 20...then, they can be your best.
I read in another blog how you referred to men as being barbaric! I sincerely pray that no man has caused you to miss the opportunity to have that man in your life, who is indeed cut from a different cloth, if that is your choice. Maybe it will cause you to change your opinion and realize that we are blessed to have wonderful men in our world. We cheat ourselves when we make blanket stereotypes. It causes us to close ourselves off from potential blessings. My dad use to say "People say the cup is either half empty or half full...same amount of water! Just depends on your perspective! Be blessed, young princess!
lol@ulisheba, okay, we're just going to have to, once again, agree to disagree. I guess you refuse to see that these are all observations, opinions, topics of discussion. So there's not much I can do to dissuade you from that light of your truth.
And, I think at this point, we're reveling in semantics. There are things that I've experienced, that my 65 year old mother has never been through. I don't assert that my knowledge is that of a person who has lived 60 years, because that's impossible. No amount of life experience can account for the years one has been on this earth.
What I said was, what I've been through, some women in their 60's probably have never experienced. Thank you for reposting everything I typed to make a point - not quite sure what your point is - but know this; I am blessed.
I have been blessed with great family, a wonderful man in my life who loves me unconditionally, great parents who've shown me what it means to live a fulfilling life, and wonderful children. I have been blessed to share with people - other women especially - what I've been through so that they can see what God has allowed me to experience personally for the benefit of others.
The Lord has allowed me to experience what I've experienced so that I can be a word to someone else. That's all. And it's disheartening that you can't see that, especially when I've more than a few times stated this is just an observation. I think you've taken it farther than it really needed to go - but hey, all in the name of interesting and engaging discussion - I'm all for that.
And please read that post again about the barbarism of men. I never said that all men were barbaric. And honestly, because I'm not sure to which post you are referring, I'm pretty certain that If made an emphatic statement my intent was not to charge every man with tag, but to make a point about behaviors. And that notion is not my own, there are hundreds of documented studies on the glaring differences between how men behave and how women react.
Read slowly my words, and try to find understanding in them. You can not, and trust me when I say this, sum me up by the opinions that I share with strangers. Again, and again, my nature is to evoke dialogue. It is what I do for a living, and have been doing it even before I realized it was the gift that God had bestowed upon me.
So, thank you for your interesting words, and I hope we can continue to learn from one another. And just so that you know, I wake up everyday, with a full cup - even when it's empty ;-).
@Tashana - You have an amazing capacity to speak out of both sides of your mouth.
You stated earlier, "But hey, maybe I'm jaded - lol. I have no problem admitting when I'm wrong." Your actions tell otherwise. For even when you are confronted with your own words, you deflect by not addressing the issues that you yourself raised and moving on to something else, as you have in you latest post. Observation means that you would have to be there, physically watching, looking on, seeing, so there is no way that could have happened. You did, however, state your opinion, as fact, in that none of your statements were prefaced with maybe Duke was married or living with someone or it could be that Duke was after cookies. You stated no alternate possibility Now it is all about how blessed you are and have a man who loves you unconditionally.
Furthermore, you skillfully tried to address any oncoming retort by explaining that if you did make reference to men being barbaric," I'm pretty certain that If made an emphatic statement my intent was not to charge every man with tag, but to make a point about behaviors" " You also stated that "And please read that post again about the barbarism of men. I never said that all men were barbaric." I've done you one better - I've re-posted your words from the other blog. Maybe if you read them slowly, you'll remember! Apparently, the man that you are now blessed with is not cut from the barbaric cloth, which is the point. I am extremely elated that you now know that all men cannot be painted with this broad brush. I give praises to the Almighty for it! However, you would be wise not to debate, just for the sake of debating. Your words will come back to haunt you. Maybe when you made the following post, you were going through a particularly hard time in you life. Don't know! But post them, you did. Now is not the time for you to change the value that you weighted them with when you posted them. Stand behind them. Take responsibility for them, but don't deny them. That just makes you appear disingenuous.
Your post from "She's dating again!"
I don't know if anyone's shared the memo with you but men ARE barbaric and animalistic, and the last time I checked, those things aren't necessarily all that terrible - in their element of course. I hate to sound cliched, but men are hunter/gathers, which would (for semantics sake) equate them to some form of barbarism. On the other hand, when men see women, they start (some of them) from head to toe; or hips to toe; or whatever brings them to salute. And I think Will already alluded to this, men don't look at women in terms of a relationship, first. That comes somewhere down the line (I personally am still working on trying to figure out exactly when that happens - but that's neither here nor there).
I know we like to think the men close to us are above and beyond the junk we see in other fellows, but they are just men. I look at my 11 year old son, and I love him with my life, but I also know who his father is, and the relationship that we had; and as they say, the apple don't fall far from the tree. And trust me, I teach him different, but alas, I am NOT a man, and he, at this point in his life, doesn't really relate to me as a woman. He sees his father and the other men in his life, and those are his models. I see it like this, I teach and show him how to be, and his dad, well, he shows him what to do (if that makes any sense).
Men are men. And alas, women are women. The familial relationships women have with men doesn't some how dismiss those men from being like the other men that aren't so decent. Trust me, I've had some conversations with my mother, and if he wasn't my father, I'd probably never want to talk to him again :-). But good, bad, or indifferent, I love him for who he is in my life.
Does any of this sound familiar? I'm just saying you can't have it both ways. You can have a change of heart and if that is what happened, great! But you'll either stand for something or fall for anything! Moreover, since your cup stays full all of the time, then barbaric or not, love will cover the multitude of sin. Be blessed, young princess.
It is clear that you yourself don't like not having the last word, or being put on blast; but hey at least your consistent because you have once again, not understood. Now, why is it that you just can't let this go? (rhetorical question - seriously doesn't require an answer)
For the record, I stand by absolutely everything I say. Like I said, if I referenced men being barbaric and animalistic, did you not read the next line that said, "it isn't really all that terrible..."? And the entire passage that followed. These are behaviors that have been thoroughly researched time and time again, and honestly go way beyond the scope of this post.
It's obvious my message doesn't reach you - which again, is fine with me. I'm not offended. But I'm saddened that as women we can't appreciate any other perspective than our own. That is, just sad. Besides, since at this point our conversations really aren't leading anywhere but back and forth banter with no meaning, I'm going to be the bigger fish and let this be the last bite - at least until Shaahn posts another blog, because frankly I think she's a good storyteller.
Don't worry about my words coming back to haunt me; because I will and have always stood by everything I've ever put in writing; even if I'm proven wrong. And, I'm a big girl, I think I can take it - lol...smh...
See my older princess, you fail to understand that I don't mind being wrong, and if I'm on a site that encourages engaging conversation - who are you to suggest that one shouldn't debate for the sake of debating. Why not?
Maybe you are from a time when women were meant to be seen and not heard, and fortunately for me those times are no more. So, maybe that's why you refuse to let this dog lie, because you somehow feel obligated to shut me up and put me in my place. Kudos to you for trying.
And as far as me stating how blessed I am, Wow, I wasn't aware that me stating the obvious was a cloak and dagger move to reposition my own point of view. You're spending wayyyyy to much time thinking about this, and frankly, now I am too. Back to work.
Oh, and before I go, let me be ABUNDANTLY CLEAR, I never said that my man is any different in his behaviors...he is still a man. Once again, you're just not getting it - and once again - welcome to America. Not everyone will get me. Not everyone will agree with me. Heck, people wont even like me, but you know what - I'm okay with that - lol..Always have been, always will be.
And, thank you for the compliment, young princess - makes me feel like being carded all over again - smh lol...have a great night!
Thursday, December 22nd 2011 at 12:47AM
Tashana Sims Hudspeth
More deflection, but do what you must! As for the last word, mine to you is what it has always been - Be blessed, young princess!
Thursday, December 22nd 2011 at 3:16AM
ulisheba mitchell
Tashana,
You said repeatedly in your final comment that I made excuses for Duke not calling. I guess you can call it that, but during my initial post I did no such thing. You ASKED me why I thought he didnt call and I gave you my speculations.
You asked me why I want you to agree with me. I never once asked you to agree with me. But, what you did was insert yourself into my shoes and my situation, tell me it was like something out of a romance novel, and then proceed to tell me that my perception of what I experienced really wasnt what happened at all. I was non-discerning, and naive. And you made some insults (offhandedly) about my judgement, and character. You even attacked the man (simply because his actions that evening was uncommon in your OWN personal experiences dealing with men) and went as far as to state that Duke was simply after s*x, and had a woman at home. You even had the audacity to tell me that you wish (when you were disillusioned about men like I am now) someone had schooled you about men back in the day.
What you did was filter everything I wrote through your own experiences to conclude that Duke was motivated by s*x, and that he was a cheater. That is where I was telling you that you could be mistaken. Its not necessarily that I want you to agree, but I wanted you to understand that all men arent like the majority of the ones youve encountered. And not all women expect a day number two. I was pretty satisfied with the nights events. It was fine right where it was, and makes for pleasant memories. But you act as though something had to be wrong for our night to end where it did.
You said that you love to debate and you are an educator who sees topics from all sides, but from your comments I would have to strongly disagree. For one thing (Ive trained in debate and speech writing, so I know what Im talking about here) as a debater, you must back all of your points with facts. You did no such thing. Every point you made, although you phrased as facts, were merely your opinion. If we were in a true forum, your so-called arguments would not hold merit. If you can be objective, you would notice that Duke did not do a single thing to indicate he was trying to sleep with me. Not calling me does not mean he was married or had an s/o. It just doesnt mean that, no matter how many times you say it. (But then again, maybe he was. But my point is, because we do not know, its irrelevant.)
This is what I think,
I think that youve had many negative experiences with men. I think that it has tarnished your view of men, and its difficult for you to grasp the actions that Duke displayed. It makes what I wrote seem like a story or as you said, a harlequin romance. But it all happened.
And you are right about you and everyone else being entitled to an opinion, but when you superimpose yourself into MY scenario and tell me what I experienced wasnt actually what I experienced, not based on facts that you had, but based on your bias of your own dating history, I have to object. And, that is what I did.
Shaahn, congratulations on your experience - lol. I hope you have many more one night experiences that you can share with the world.
Know this, I don't know you, you don't know me, if I make an observation - that I have repeatedly stated was not a fact (but I guess you ladies don't want to hear that - you just want agreement) - doesn't mean you know anymore about me, than I know about you.
I stand by everything I said, and frankly I thought as women, as BLACK women, we could appreciate other opinions and points of view - but obviously that is not the case.
The fact is, according to you, this man never called back. That is a fact (correct)? So, really, all of this is conjecture. Isn't it obvious to you that I don't know the facts? I wasn't there. I am not in that man's head. So, why take this so personally unless you have issues with people not seeing what you see? Please don't answer - because again, this post is going nowhere, and we're at a point where personal feelings are stalling engaging dialogue.
You're a blogger, right. Be prepared for people to attack you. To judge you. To disagree with you. Don't wear your feelings on the ends of your finger tips. None of this is that serious and it seems to me my comments have inflamed negative emotions. Fortunately for me, I don't wear my feelings on my sleeve - but again, I have no problem standing by my words - I wrote them.
The one thing I will do, because I'm woman enough to do so, is apologize. If I've personally offended you - understand that is never my intention, for what do I stand to gain from trying to put you down. I shared with you my experience(s), and it was presupposed that those comments were apparently my whole life instead of those comments being taken in the context in which they were given.
And, did you miss the part of my post when I said "is it possible - yes, it's possible. I just don't agree". Did you miss that, or did you just not want to see. Irregardless, my comments are what they are. Again, congrats on your beautiful night.
Friday, December 23rd 2011 at 12:48AM
Tashana Sims Hudspeth
Tashana,
You're right. As a blogger I should be prepared for others to attack me, but I guess I wasnt ready for it to happen in this forum. As you said, we should be (as black women) able to appreciate others' points of view. But there is a difference from objective opinion, and character attacks.
You are right again, this is going nowhere. I accept your apology. And I did feel that you judged me and attacked my character and Duke's. I dont even know the man, but that does not make what you did right.
Even as children we learn that just because we dont understand something does not give us the right to attack others. I feel like you did not want me to have my own perspective. Its as though you felt the need to shoot down everything I said, because it was not your reality, and that is something that as adults, should not happen. Especially someone such as yourself, who is an educator and debater. It would seem that you would have more of an open mind, and not impose your own experiences onto my own. (just because to you my story was unlikely)
Anyway. I sincerely appreciate your apology. and Im not trying to be smart, but irregardless is not a word, although it has been widely accepted as one (similar to conversate). "regardless" would work just fine in any and every instance that you would use regardless.
I meant to type: "regardless" would work just fine in any and every instance that you would use irregardless.
Friday, December 23rd 2011 at 1:52PM
Shaahn Williams
Yep guys I think you are all right to end with the ole' agree to disagree respectfully because Ulisheba is all out in left field as usual. ((Lol))
There is something about overly spiritual / religious folk that I've heard said... "too heavenly bound that they are no or not much earthly good"... practical stuff goes over their heads... I'd be interested to hear some of Ulisheba's dating experiences in a blog in the near future. What about you guys? Ha!
... but to be quite frank, I think the guy knew he had options that many brothas don't have when it comes to dating ... he could afford not to call back whereas say a Black woman like Shaahn wouldn't want to miss out and let that fish slip off the hook. At any rate... "you win some and you lose some"
In this case, I'd have been happy to lose out on a guy who drives a station wagon! Sounds so cheap and uncool. He lost cool points for that blunder. Not cool at all...
You are amazing, I almost feel like I'm really there! You definitely paint a VIVID picture. I actually went to your blog and all I could do was SMILE at your posts. You inspire me to "date" even when I don't know how to! LOL I am usually the serious relationship type but I've been single for three years. I've "dealt" with a few but not sure if I want to call it dating... I've been inspired to move closer to the city (Chicago) and get out and mingle and just live in the moment! LOL Continue to do great things and happy dating! <3
Tuesday, December 27th 2011 at 10:57PM
Vernishia Renee
Thanks Vernishia. Im so happy that I can be an inspiration to get you out there again just to have fun and meet people. When its the right man for "serious" you will know and things will progress naturally. Thanks for visiting my real blog and supporting there too. I appreciate it. I have a book on Kindle that is doing pretty well. Im selling chapter by chapter, so its very short. It only costs $1.00. Check it out if you get a chance. Its called, Sugarbaby Diaries: An adventure in mutually beneficial agreements (Sugarbaby 101: the basics) Im working on chapter 2 now. Its gonna be GOOD!!! Here is the link: http://www.amazon.com/Sugarbaby-Diaries-be... Wednesday, December 28th 2011 at 11:40AM
Shaahn Williams
It's here! It's here! Chapter One of my Sugarbaby Diaries book is now available on Kindle for $2.99. Check it out! http://www.amazon.com/dp/B006XHF838 Saturday, January 14th 2012 at 10:34PM
Shaahn Williams
It's here! It's here! Chapter One of my Sugarbaby Diaries book is now available on Kindle for $2.99. Check it out! http://www.amazon.com/dp/B006XHF838 Saturday, January 14th 2012 at 10:34PM
Shaahn Williams
