Your Thoughts Re: Baby Born Alive and Left to Die at Florida Clinic? (681 hits)
Does anyone know what became of this story of a young mother who accused a Florida clinic of botching her abortion, allowing her child to be born alive - then putting the baby into a plastic bag and throwing her out with the trash?
Sycloria Williams is suing Dr Pierre Jean-Jacque Renelique and the abortion clinic's owners in a case that has shocked both sides of the abortion debate. Ms Williams (age 18 at the time) went to an abortion clinic outside Miami and paid $1,200 for Dr Renelique to terminate her 23-week pregnancy.
She concluded she didn't have the resources or maturity to raise a child, he said, and went to the Miramar Women's Center on July 17, 2006.
She met Dr Renelique at a second clinic two days later. Dr Renelique gave Ms Williams laminaria, a drug that dilates the cervix, and prescribed three other medications, according to the administrative complaint filed by the Health Department. She was told to go to yet another clinic, A Gyn Diagnostic Center in Hialeah, where the procedure would be performed the next day, on July 20, '06.
Ms Williams arrived in the morning and was given more medication. The Department of Health account continues as follows: Just before noon she began to feel ill. The clinic contacted Dr Renelique. Two hours later, he still hadn't shown up. Williams went into labour and delivered the baby. 'She came face to face with a human being,' Pennekamp said. 'And that changed everything.' The complaint says one of the clinic owners, Belkis Gonzalez came in and cut the umbilical cord with scissors, then placed the baby in a plastic bag, and the bag in a trash can.
Ms Williams' lawsuit offers a cruder account: She says Ms Gonzalez knocked the baby off the recliner chair where she had given birth, onto the floor. The baby's umbilical cord was not clamped, allowing her to bleed out. Ms Gonzalez scooped the baby, placenta and afterbirth into a red plastic bio-hazard bag and threw it out. An autopsy determined Williams' baby — she named her Shanice — had filled her lungs with air, meaning she had been born alive, according to the Department of Health. The cause of death was listed as extreme prematurity.
Should prosecutors file murder charges, they'd have to prove the baby was born alive, said Robert Batey, a professor of criminal law at Stetson University College of Law in Gulfport. The defence might contend that the child would have died anyway, but most courts would not allow that argument, he said. 'Hastening the death of an individual who is terminally ill is still considered causing the death of that individual,' Mr Batey said. 'And I think a court would rule similarly in this type of case.'
LORD HAVE MERCY!!!
Sunday, July 25th 2010 at 2:32PM
Siebra Muhammad
I would like to know what Ms. Williams parent(s) have to say about all this...
Sunday, July 25th 2010 at 2:35PM
Siebra Muhammad
@ Sister Siebra How does NOI address the disportionate rate that Black women are aborting their children?
@ Brother Clark According to the article, Ms. Williams aborted a 23 week preganacy. Its sad to say this, but I know this young lady will never be the same.
Monday, July 26th 2010 at 3:34PM
Jen Fad
@ Sister Irma, Pediatric ICU's still us weight to determine the care a preemie requires among other things. When I did insurance reviews of Horizon Blue Cross Blue Shield Medicaid cases, the peds ICU used the weight gain of the baby to downgrade them out of the ICU to Special Care Nursery which required less invasive treatments.
Monday, July 26th 2010 at 3:37PM
Jen Fad
Sister Jen, I cannot fully relate to Ms. Williams story, because not only had I never had any biological children, I have never been pregnant. I was always one to put career above everything else i guess that's one of the reasons why I'm not married with kids (LOL). However, I hope that our sister is able to heal both emotionally and physically from her loss.
Now to answer your question, according to the NOI, abortion is viewed as murder. Let's say (just as an example) the child's father dies. If the father dies the child is still usually with the mother, but the mother is the most influential force in a child's life in the beginning. Even if a woman is raped abortion is not justified, because the child can be a person that was born to do good or bad things in the world. Now, should rapists be punished? You're damn right they should be punished! But if pregnancy occurs this is not so much of a bad thing considering the human potential.
Another reason that abortion is forbidden is the fact that there is also the possibility that if the mother has multiple abortions the woman's uterus may become too weak to hold a baby, resulting in her not being able to carry a planned pregnancy to full-term.
My point is people should not be allowed to make errors in having s*x that will or may result in abortion (murder). s*xual energy (while it can be enjoyable) is not a toy because it has big implications that affect the people as a whole. If a person has an abortion they may be killing a person or be stopping a soul that will bring a change in the world; of course we can be bringing a monster in the world too but if we abort them we are stopping the progress of seeing the world become better.
Monday, July 26th 2010 at 7:37PM
Siebra Muhammad
@ Brother Clark, According to the literature, Ms. Williams had was is called a late term abortion
(If abortion is performed between 20-24 weeks of pregnancy, then it is called late abortion.)
The current judicial interpretation of the U.S. Constitution regarding abortion in the United States, following the Supreme Court of the United States's 1973 landmark decision in Roe v. Wade, and subsequent companion decisions, is that abortion is legal but may be restricted by the states to varying degrees.
States have passed laws to restrict late term abortions, require parental notification for minors, and mandate the disclosure of abortion risk information to patients prior to the procedure.
The key, deliberated article of the U.S. Constitution is the Fourteenth Amendment, which states that Late term abortion is not illegal and the historic Row vs Wade determinted that... In deciding Roe v. Wade, the Supreme Court ruled that a Texas statute forbidding abortion except when necessary to save the life of the mother was unconstitutional. The Court arrived at its decision by concluding that the issue of abortion and abortion rights falls under the right to privacy.
The court held that a fetus was not a person under the Constitution, and that a right to privacy existed and included the right to have an abortion. The court found that a mother had a right to abortion until viability, a point to be determined by the abortion doctor. After viability a woman can obtain an abortion for health reasons, which the Court defined broadly to include psychological well-being. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abortion_in_t... Tuesday, July 27th 2010 at 12:26AM
Jen Fad
@ Sister Siebra, It appears that NOI doesn't really address the issue of abortion amongst it Black women except to call it murder. I was hoping that you would give information to the tune of adoption programs and aide programs for young mothers pregnant out of wedlock.
Tuesday, July 27th 2010 at 12:29AM
Jen Fad
Sister Irma, You have said so much that I don't know where to start to address your comments. I do believe that parents are the first teachers of their children and we should make sure that we are talking to them about healthy decision making and making good choices. My son is only 5 years old, but I know that kids his age are being exposed to far more than we were at that age.
I listen to what he's saying and I pay attention to his actions so that I can correct any wrong thoughts or beliefs. I know that you understand this very well Sister Irma about making sure our kids are getting the correct information rather than mixed up information from kids who are trying to figure things out on their own from what they have seen on television, heard thru music lyrics, etc...
I don't much like the idea of schools providing s*x ed, but there are parents out their who just will not talk to their kids so these kids have to be educated some how. I remember my s*x ed class just confused me more. I couldn't really appreciate the information because I think I was still a little too young and immature to understand it.
Sister Irma, So true that we need child development and education classes. As a matter just yesterday, I was giving my friend some advise on how to help her 11 year dgt who's going thru earlier puberty for what I personally experienced and using my child developmment knowledge. She was so grateful. I think life would be a bit more simple for parents if they had this knowledge.
Even me when I had my son, I was able to use some of the information for myself, but I will not deceive you and say that I knew it all~~ I didn't. I reached out to people with kids to also help me.
Tuesday, July 27th 2010 at 9:15PM
Jen Fad
Jen, this story is sad all around and no one will be able to come out the moral winner...but, we all know the courts today and how much they require that I don't believe this young lady can afford to supply to the courts unless some attorney with clout and lots of money can provide for her...and, maybe for free.
I am sure the courts will require expert witness to show how healthy she was and produce medial records of check ups of both her and the baby. I don't know how it is today, but back when I had my premature babys they went by the went by weight of the infant (under 5 lbs) to determine if it could be able to live out side of an incombator and around the clock medical care.(smile)
Thursday, April 10th 2014 at 6:47PM
ROBINSON IRMA
Jen, I do hope taht this has changed in insurance coverage...I had my first child (that lived as they had pinned down why I alwyas aborted in my fifth month which cause no insurance co. to allow me to be insured with them dispite my being only21 years old at the time...
@ Jen, do you believe it is prejudice as well as racial profilings for only Black abortiions to be recorded and only the live birhts of the White single/ married females to be recorded for staticital use?!? (NUP) but I still must acknowledge that truth is not a social norm in our country. or how could we be able to continue thes myths about people of color if we did not do just this as the social norms where only we have s*x out side of marriage in th efirst place!!!...
(fotflm Black ao as always) (smile)
Thursday, April 10th 2014 at 6:47PM
ROBINSON IRMA
...at age 19 I married my husband who was to make the Marine corps his career so we had not medical insurance problems and it was the specialist who found my having a defective cervix by following me and my natural abortions. and no the gossip of abortions was still there as this to is natural human behavior to better help the unknown make sense dispite me being a devote Catholic at the time.(smile)
Thursday, April 10th 2014 at 6:47PM
ROBINSON IRMA
It is too bad thAT we are just to out of it to do the responsiable thing...talk to your children,BOTH boys and girls and even better demand that they have s*x education classes in your local schools...HOw many women would go thoug h all of this expense and wasted time if they knew that a female can only get pregnant 72 (or 76 hours in a given month)...find out if you can even have children or not, and this goes for men and women. some married people can never have children with each other because the sprem the female is allergic to and her body will kill them...because of some genetics some people should not have children together for the sake of the child (cycle cell anemia for one, positive and negative blood types for another....
"I" mentioned thiss because I am O positive and myhusbans i O negative, this meant I took blood test on a regular bases to see if my child would be going against my body...so in a way it is good my children were born prems...and, not what is called Blue baby...(Jen, I am sure there have been a lot of medical changes in this also, (smile))there are a lot of things that can be done if we come into the real world...s*x IS NATURAL AND LIKE MOST EVERY THINGS IT CAN NOT BE SOCIALLY REgulaTED...and our youth is best for having children as our eggs are fresh...
mE, i LIKE THINGS DONE AS EASY AND AS IT IS SO HARD TO KEEP TRACK OF A LIE...JUST TELL YOUR CHILDREN THE TRUTH SO THEY CAN BE PREPARED NOT TO GET WITH CHILD AS A CHILD..."i" AM SURE THE "IF YOU LOVE ME__________LINE HAS NOT GROWN OLD THERERFORE GOES FROM ONE GENERATION TO THE NEXT (SMILE)
AND, i STILL GET A GREAT LAUGH OUT OF MY MOM'S SAYING TO ME, "i WAS A TEEN AGER LONG BEFORE YOU WERE" LOL. oUR PARENTS ARE PEOPLE WHO KNOW EVERY THING. LOL (SMILE)
Thursday, April 10th 2014 at 6:47PM
ROBINSON IRMA
Than how about this all parents to be taking a child development class?!? Let us as adults learn about the small child's world before trying to introduce them into our adult world...because we know a little about their reality as they know about our reality...
tow of the most interesting things I learned in my child development calss wes (no 3 thints)
1. the child until about 5 or 6 lives in a me wrold...example if you child hits another child in the head with an object they should not be punished as we tend to do...that child has no sense of intent or a since of someone can feel pain because they did not feel pain from that it and they have no idea what you are so upset over...the same way as trying to teach them not to run out into the street...they have no long teem mamorrey to be able to be able to do tis...they are not sisobeing they just has no memory of not running into the street and why...
I wrote a story about my child when a neighbor gave her and orange and she promply threw it on teh floor...I knew how much my child loved balls and she thought the orange was a ball but my neighbor got up set at this sidrespect (smile)
When you take your small child to the baby sitter and they cry and cry it is because any thing they can not seee don't exist and they have no way to konw you will be coming back...the example goven to us was to watch a small child and if a toy goes under the couch and ou tof sight they will just go on as they have no idea that it still exist...this is called the ME world of the child so never put of giving them a spanking until dad gets home because they have no idea what they are being punished for. cute isn't it learning this when my children were grown and married and had childre on their own...
Jen, I find that self esteeme is the best birth control their is going...if a man wants to be in your company he will do it unconditionally. period, end of story.(smile)
so what do you think about parents taking a child developement class and self esteeme classes or ust a few Critical Thinking classes. (smile)
Thursday, April 10th 2014 at 6:47PM
ROBINSON IRMA
